breckyunits.com

Languages and libraries

programming notation

SHOW HN2017

29points
63comments
#1,050of 2,242 in 2017
Top 47%of 2017 by points

How HN took it

RoastedHalf or more of the comments are critical

0 positive, 8 neutral or asking, 1 mixed, 18 critical, out of 27 comments about the project. Thread score -0.54.

Idea: 0 for, 10 againstExecution: 0 for, 4 againstDesign: 0 for, 2 againstDocs: 0 for, 2 against

The thread, comment by comment

Each row is a top-level comment and its replies, in HN's order. Select a cell to open that comment on HN.

positive neutral or mixed critical about another commenter or something else the maker

What HN said

What people liked

  • Pointer to SRFI-49 and related Scheme notations was helpful

    From 2 comments
    • So this is basically sexp with indentation instead of parentheses, that is I-expressions: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49
      nsajko on HN
    • https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html
      kazinator on HN

Objections

  • Largely equivalent to S-expressions and existing indentation Lisps like SRFI-49 and Wisp

    From 3 comments
    • I... think some humility would serve you well. You are making some very audacious claims about the data structures, ``` -- rose tree storing data on internal nodes rather than…
      drostie on HN
    • > ETNs are very much like Lisp, except it removes the AST parse step (and the parentheses!), leaving the resulting programs simpler than their Lisp equivalents I don't see how…
      kazinator on HN
    • So this is basically sexp with indentation instead of parentheses, that is I-expressions: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49
      nsajko on HN
  • Complexity is shifted to the interpreter rather than removed

    From 2 comments
    • I would like to make a claim that ETN doesn't reduce complexity of programs, it merely splits it in two: the TN that declares the data structure and the interpreter on the other…
      zimbatm on HN
    • Take the other example in the paper: https://github.com/breck7/treenotation/blob/master/paper/treenotation.png How does it know that line starting with a number translates into a…
      zimbatm on HN
  • Hype and overclaiming about revolutionary impact

    From 3 comments
    • if its powered by hype and hyperbole, and not concrete ideas, should work fine... wait, no, a paradigm shift, amazing, revolutionary.
      ndc33 on HN
    • Wow. This feels a little too ambitious :-)
      gfredtech on HN
    • You lost me. Can you explain the actual values of ETN over current programming languages? While I do see value in leaving out the unneeded key variable in Figure 1, are there…
      firecopy on HN
  • Unclear value over existing languages; the Fibonacci example looks like ordinary imperative code

    From 2 comments
    • I'm not really understanding how this is superior to existing notation. It looks like the only unusual thing being done is putting the lvalue as the first argument to the…
      orclev on HN
    • You lost me. Can you explain the actual values of ETN over current programming languages? While I do see value in leaving out the unneeded key variable in Figure 1, are there…
      firecopy on HN

Requests

  • Show concrete code examples and a working demo of Ohayo

    From 2 comments
    • i couldnt find any normal code -> your new system examples that made sense. can you post a short one here? like 10 lines or something?
      the_cat_kittles on HN
    • I think that will be the tasting necessary to prove this pudding. I would also point out that you do have parse errors in your scheme (incorrect indentation errors) and that…
      drostie on HN
  • Clarify the JSON encoding ambiguity and parsing of strings

    From 2 comments
    • Take the JSON encoding example. How does it know that 802 is a number? What if I want to have "802" as a string? Is it because visitors.mozilla has a fixed schema that it's value…
      zimbatm on HN
    • A JSON object like: { "title" : "Jack and Ada at BCHS", "visitors": { ``` "mozilla": 802 } ``` } Can be written in Tree Notation like this: title Jack and Ada at BCHS visitors…
      sharemywin on HN

Questions

  • How does the parser know which lines map to which constructs

    From 2 comments
    • Take the other example in the paper: https://github.com/breck7/treenotation/blob/master/paper/treenotation.png How does it know that line starting with a number translates into a…
      zimbatm on HN
    • Take the JSON encoding example. How does it know that 802 is a number? What if I want to have "802" as a string? Is it because visitors.mozilla has a fixed schema that it's value…
      zimbatm on HN

Alternatives named

  • S-expressions and Scheme

    From 2 comments
    • I... think some humility would serve you well. You are making some very audacious claims about the data structures, ``` -- rose tree storing data on internal nodes rather than…
      drostie on HN
    • So this is basically sexp with indentation instead of parentheses, that is I-expressions: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49
      nsajko on HN
  • SRFI-49 I-expressions

    From 2 comments
    • So this is basically sexp with indentation instead of parentheses, that is I-expressions: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49
      nsajko on HN
    • https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html
      kazinator on HN
  • Sweet expressions and Wisp

    From 1 comment
    • > ETNs are very much like Lisp, except it removes the AST parse step (and the parentheses!), leaving the resulting programs simpler than their Lisp equivalents I don't see how…
      kazinator on HN
  • Piet and other 2D languages

    From 1 comment

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