FractalCrypt 2.0

Security and privacy

deniable encryption

SHOW HN2021

128points
61comments
#398of 2,533 in 2021
Top 16%of 2021 by points

How HN took it

RoastedHalf or more of the comments are critical

1 positive, 14 neutral or asking, 1 mixed, 18 critical, out of 34 comments about the project. Thread score -0.42.

Privacy: 0 for, 12 againstIdea: 1 for, 5 againstDocs: 0 for, 1 against

The thread, comment by comment

Each row is a top-level comment and its replies, in HN's order. Select a cell to open that comment on HN.

positive neutral or mixed critical about another commenter or something else the maker

What HN said

What people liked

  • Multiple hidden layers can give deniability beyond TrueCrypt's single hidden volume

    From 1 comment
    • This article is about the problem of using TrueCrypt, which allows you to create a single hidden layer; In case TrueCrypt usage is detected, the requirement to give out the…
      zorggish on HN

Objections

  • Multi-snapshot and write-pattern attacks can reveal hidden data size

    From 2 comments
    • This works like TrueCrypt hidden volumes, which are volumes created in the free space of volumes. This is not secure against multi-snapshot adversaries, like those who can take…
      Comevius on HN
    • > The capability of plausible deniability is that the encrypted file is indistinguishable from noise; There is no way you can find out the amount of data stored in the…
      cdumler on HN
  • Interrogators can torture indefinitely; deniability fails under duress

    From 3 comments
    • So... assuming there are bad guys demanding access to your data and you say "oh yes, I've been using this plausible deniability encryption/archive format", chances are that…
      akx on HN
    • > until they get the data they want. The game theory here is interesting. If they are sure that you have the information (for example, the private key to your bitcoin wallet)…
      dane-pgp on HN
    • Old but relevant https://defuse.ca/truecrypt-plausible-deniability-useless-by-game-theory.htm .Be careful with plausible deniability depending on your threat model as it's only…
      anonypla on HN
  • Mentioning FractalCrypt in the app reveals its use and undermines deniability

    From 3 comments
    • The app literally says "Welcome to FractalCrypt!" when you open it. Not only revealing the encryption format name, but clearly hinting to how it works. I'd much prefer an…
      flixic on HN
    • > Whereas, using FractalCrypt you can safely give away the keys to unclassified volumes, and there is no way to prove that there are actually more volumes than you have…
      bb88 on HN
    • Can’t the attacker just see that FractalCrypt is installed, read the same Readme, and ask for the 2nd key?
      hartator on HN
  • No security analysis or threat model documented

    From 1 comment
    • Not a word about security analysis, threat model, etc. That's not how a security tool your life could depend on is presented these days. Also, is it a coincidence that the "Made…
      ComodoHacker on HN

Requests

  • Allow user-set fixed container size unrelated to payload

    From 1 comment
    • To expand on your second point, these kinds of systems should let you set the fixed-size of the volume, like 1G or 5G, with the payload being unrelated.
      moritonal on HN
  • Encode offset and size parameters in the key

    From 1 comment
    • > First, it creates a cryptocontainer of a user-specified size, filled with random characters. To create the first volume, the program archives the user-specified files to the…
      3np on HN
  • Look-alike container format such as zip for cover

    From 2 comments
    • In countries like the UK where you can be jailed or fined for not giving a password, this provides a way to do that and escape jail. Truecrypt did it and after the developers…
      davidhbolton on HN
    • Unless the functionality is supported in common software like zip the mere fact of one using it can be a clue.
      FpUser on HN

Questions

  • Can use of FractalCrypt be detected from the file?

    From 1 comment
    • Can it be detected that you are using fractalcrypt archive type?
      m3kw9 on HN
  • Is the output a standard ZIP file?

    From 1 comment
    • For one, it's not clear that this tool creates standard .ZIP files, so the bad guys using an off-the-shelf `unzip` tool would probably suspect things. If the tool does create…
      akx on HN

Alternatives named

  • TrueCrypt and VeraCrypt hidden volumes

    From 2 comments
    • Yeah, TrueCrypt or VeraCrypt are widespread enough right now and most people are just using them in normal, non-deniable form, so it seems like better cover currently.
      arsome on HN
    • Exactly this. In True/VeraCrypt, there’s only the possibility of having two keys, the main and hidden one. Just the existence of this feature places everyone using the software…
      orev on HN
  • LUKS with offsets

    From 1 comment
    • for use within linux I wouldn't trust anything but luks. speaking of luks, it can theoretically accomplish this with offsets and payload align, but I'm not sure I'd trust it not…
      tifadg1 on HN
  • Steganography

    From 1 comment
    • I am not an expert in encryption or plausible deniability, but couldn't steganography be used to conceal sensitive information? I realize steganography would be problematic if…
      inetsee on HN

Category, keywords, summaries and labels on this page were made by AI (Thread Reader v2) and not checked by hand. Each point links to the comments it came from.

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